Deepfake Digital Harm and Exploitation Bill

Deepfake Digital Harm and Exploitation Bill First Reading Debate resumed from 29 April. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Last time we were reading the bill, we were up to call No. 5. Dr DAVID WILSON (NZ First) (16:07): Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak to the Deepfake Digital Harm and Exploitation Bill. This is important in and of itself, so care must be taken in integrating with the inquiry into online harm, and I know that Laura will be supportive of that. We’re talking about artificial intelligence (AI), deepfakes, and impersonations. We’re talking about identity fraud. These things are reaching into other parts of our lives, such as scams, fraud, impersonations, and identity fraud, just to name a few. But what follows from those things is coercion, shame, and blackmail, and they often follow those events. It’s so important for us to get this right in the context that it is. First of all, I just want to say thank you to Laura McClure for bringing this issue to Parliament. Thank you very much for your courage in doing this. The bill outlines a clear violation of self-ownership and personal autonomy. It does this by amending both the Crimes Act and the Harmful Digital Communications Act, both of which need updating to take account of how things are moving so fast online. One of those is, for example: what does “harmful” mean? We don’t actually have a very good definition of “harmful” yet, so that we can actually, if you like, prosecute the people that are crossing the line. One of the things that came out of the inquiry into harm young New Zealanders encounter online was the establishment of an independent national regulator for online safety. In a shifting world, this responsibility is absolutely vital, and we need to understand what the Government architecture underlying that will be to ensure that we’re going to approach this in the best possible way. When you’re looking at how digitally altered, synthesised images or videos are used without an individual’s consent, we need to be able to hold those individuals and those platforms to account. I am a father and this kind of activity is abhorrent. It makes my blood boil. These people are stealing and expropriating people’s identities. The full force of the law should be visited upon them, and New Zealand First wholeheartedly supports this bill. HANA-RAWHITI MAIPI-CLARKE (Te Pāti Māori—Hauraki-Waikato) (16:10): Tēnā rā koe e te Pīka, otirā tēnā rā tātou e te Whare. E tū ana ahau ki te waha i ngā kōrero mā Te Pāti Māori i tēnei rangi mō tēnei pire. [Thank you, Madam Speaker. Indeed, greetings to us all in the House. I stand to give voice to statements on behalf of the Māori Party today regarding this bill.] I just want to, before I start, thank the member not only for bringing this bill into Parliament but also for working in a bipartisan way on such an important issue, particularly for wahine and rangatahi. It takes a lot of courage to bring in something like this, and although the ACT Party and Te Pāti Māori don’t agree on a lot of things, this is where it was really important that we could agree on this. For myself—and actually being told by other people that they don’t think I should support this bill—there are many reasons why I beg to differ. Recently—last week—we also had different social media bills. We had the online digital harm bill inquiry come to the House, and that’s when I said in my opening speech that to put it into perspective, I’m Gen Z, so I don’t know a world without the internet. Generation Alpha doesn’t know a world without social media, and Generation Beta doesn’t know a world without artificial intelligence (AI), and that’s the reality of our future, and we’re completely underestimating how rapidly the online internet world and even the dark web have, if not already, taken over our lives. To create bills and legislation that can move with these evolving times is really important. In today’s society, the fabric that is made up of algorithms that we see as young people, whether you’re Māori or non-Māori, completely alters the psychological effects we have of interacting with each other, our behaviours—everything amazing and dangerous has collided in one space, and AI takes it that further step. This bill, the Deepfake Digital Harm and Exploitation Bill, is essentially dealing with the creation of AI pornographic images of young people without their consent. This bill criminalises that. It’s a scary world when these realities come into the classrooms of our kids and when they come into the hands of our kids, and whether that’s through iPhones or the internet, it can be a really scary world. We are doing everything in our power to get this bill in quicker and faster and I’m looking forward to hearing what the general public have to say in the select committee. Just to add some data, the volume of deepfake files shared online surged from 500,000 in 2023 to millions, representing an annual growth rate of over 900,000 percent. Global data estimates that approximately 98 percent of deepfake videos online are non-consensual pornographic material that overwhelmingly targets women. Last week I also shared that when we were over in New York at one of the AI summits, we were notified that there’s a five- to 10-year window that we have, and as well as many tech leaders, including Google DeepMind CEOs, Project AGI, the consensus is echoed by recent academic surveys which suggest that there is a 50 percent chance that AI will surpass human intelligence within the next five to 10 years. Although this sounds very long-term or futuristic thinking, it’s definitely on our doorstep, so I want to thank the member for bringing in this bill and we look forward to hearing the submissions at the select committee. CAMILLA BELICH (Labour) (16:15): Thank you, Madam Speaker. First of all, congratulations to the member Laura McClure for having this bill drawn and for getting support across the House on what is a really important and serious issue that we’re facing. I recall the first time that we talked about the issues of deepfake images being used was probably in 2020, when I was first elected to Parliament and this issue has only grown in importance. I think everyone can see, as soon as they pick up their phone, the prevalence of AI images and how often people seem to not be able to tell what is real and what is not real. I think the case for this type of legislation gets stronger as that technology gets more sophisticated and more widespread in its usage. As my colleague Helen White indicated in an earlier part of this first reading, we are very supportive of this bill and we want to acknowledge the work that Laura and Helen and a lot of others have done to discuss this and also the work as part of Commonwealth Women Parliamentarians, who have looked at this issue—because it is a gendered issue. As many speakers have noticed and recorded, it is an issue that mainly affects women. This bill does make what we were talking about today—that is, the creation, without consent, of an intimate visual recording that is fake—a crime. That is very serious and I think that reflects the seriousness with which the House sees that type of behaviour, and I think it’s an important part of the police being able to take prosecutions on this, but it’s also the message that this is not acceptable behaviour. It is important to be respectful of people’s image and not to take advantage of someone or seek to shame or embarrass them through the utilisation of this new technology. Hopefully, that is a message that will come from this House too, and no doubt we will hear at the select committee many of the stories that have impacted people. I have just been reading an email about someone who was the subject of a deepfake intimate visual recording, and it’s horrific to think of going through that process. I know that everyone in this House will not want that to become normalised as a part of our society. I do hope that people who have been subjected to this type of behaviour and wish to speak out against it feel that they can submit to the select committee. I know that that is probably something that the member would have covered in her speech, but I do think it’s really important to say that my experience, no matter the make-up of a committee or the year of the Parliament, has been that when people have courageously wanted to tell their stories, that has been done in a sympathetic way, a private way if necessary, and in a way that honours their dignity. That has been my almost universal experience when people have wanted to share quite difficult intimate stories, and I want to say to submitters who are thinking about sharing their stories that my expectation and I’m sure the expectation of Laura McClure and other members of this House would be that they can share those stories, if they wish, in a way that will make them feel heard, respected, empowered, and it will hopefully mean that what they have suffered will not go on to be suffered by other people needlessly. This is a good bill. We will be supporting it, and I think it will be something that is important to work through at select committee, and I look forward to contributing to that. Hon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister of Justice) (16:19): I wanted to come down to the House and support this piece of legislation, which has support right across the House, to deal with an issue that is driven fundamentally by technological change and the rapid rise of deepfakes and all the trouble and strife that is caused to the victims of that, which is potentially highly traumatic but also part of scams and sextortion and many other elements. So, we’re talking about using technology to make fake nudes or a wide variety of other sexualised images. The current legislation isn’t sufficient to deal with the task, so there’s two pieces of legislation: the Crimes Act, and the Harmful Digital Communications Act, which have references to the posting of visual images which has been an ongoing problem that we sought to deal with. Now we are extending that to digital images that have been created using the various apps that are available. I commend the member for bringing them into the House and we support them, and we support it very much in the context of a wide range of pieces of legislation that Government has brought in to help address the issue of sexual offending, that being the stalking legislation that comes into effect next week, and changes around name suppression for convicted sex offenders, and the toughening up of sentencing generally. It is an interesting observation that while there is universal support across the House for some of the legislation such as stalking and such as this one in relation to deepfakes, both of which have criminal consequences and potentially time in jail—while there is agreement on that, there is less agreement on the consequences for crimes. It’s all very well having a piece of legislation that has consequences and criminalises behaviours but if fundamentally there are parties in this Government that actually don’t even believe in jail and they don’t believe in real consequences in any way, shape, or form, and they’ve fought back against any effort made by this Government to strengthen up the sentencing regime—so, generally, we’ve have had a slightly mixed attitude to that across the House. We, however, are clear that part of what the sentencing regime and the justice system is about is about denouncing the act, and part of that denunciation of the act—in this case, creating a fake nude and distributing it—is it needs to be clear and there needs to be real consequences for that, not a bit of time on the couch playing PlayStation, necessarily, but something else. So we’re very supportive of this legislation. We have zero tolerance for this kind of harassment of individuals, particularly women, who are, quite clearly, far more likely to be the victims of this sort of what will become a crime. We want to send a clear message about that. It’s steady work because the reality is that with the changing of legislation, new opportunities for people who are of the mind to do so—to create mayhem—arise. That’s why part of fixing the basics in the context of the justice system that we have is that we’ve got to make sure that our legislation is up to date with trends and practices that are developing. Like I say, next week, stalking; this week, we’re sending off to select committee this bill, which is dealing with deepfakes. We support this and we look forward to a good, thorough examination through the select committee process. Thank you, Madam Chair. ARENA WILLIAMS (Labour—Manurewa) (16:24): It’s Youth Week. Happy Youth Week to everyone who has celebrated in Parliament this week, to everyone working around the country in our youth organisations, our youth hubs, and our youth outreach facilities. It is incredible mahi that we do to support rangatahi in their aspirations, and I want to commend the member who has brought this bill on what is such an important issue for those young people, to look around a generation of young New Zealanders who are growing up with some unique challenges that are so different from the ones that we faced. I was 16-year-old girl 20 years ago. Twenty years ago, the challenges that faced young people were so, so far from AI massively changing the way not only that we learn, that we socialise, the jobs that we can expect our young people to be able to get, but the kind of sexual harm and abuse that they are facing online. This is one thing where we can show young people that the Government will use the power of the State to help them cope with some of the worst consequences of widespread use of AI in this way. What would it feel like to have been that 16-year-old girl in your school and discovered that naked photos of you were being shared around your school by people you know, by your classmates, and your friends—maybe even your boyfriend—and the images were fake? What would it feel like to know someone made them in under 30 seconds using an app they had downloaded on their phone? What would it feel like to walk into class the next morning knowing everybody had seen them anyway? That’s not hypothetical anymore; this is the experience that so many young women are facing. We can do something about it, about a law that has not kept up. That’s why Labour supports the Deepfake Digital Harm and Exploitation Bill because we believe New Zealanders should be able to participate in modern digital life without that being an ordinary part of it and something we just ask young people to accept in the modern world. Young people deserve better than what is happening to them online right now, and that applies to many things. We should constantly hold to account the companies that are profiting off their misery. But this is something where we should say there is no reason why you should offer these products. They should not be profitable and they should not be legal. This is something where we can send a really clear message to anyone using these apps that we’ve drawn a line in the sand and said, “No, you cannot treat young women in this way. There is a level of conduct here which is not acceptable for any New Zealander against any other New Zealander, and we see this as a crime.” This is a good bill. That harm is still happening, and it’s happening in our schools. Young women and girls are facing being pasted on explicit websites without consent and then distributed to their peers in this way and, while the image might be fake, that abuse is still completely real. The way that it is felt has nothing to do with the way that the image was created. The humiliation is real, the fear of this kind of conduct is real, and the way that it impacts young people’s trust not only amongst their peers but with their family and amongst their wider social group is real. There is real harm from this going forward for them, as well; a level of psychological harm that when this has been done to you, how do you continue to relate not only to the technology that you use in your life but to the people who are around you? It’s casualised, it’s normalised, and it shouldn't be. I think the most important thing about this bill is that it actually confronts quite a difficult definition to read. So often in this kind of legislation, where we are trying to deal with young people’s issues, legislators will shy away from the gritty reality of what these young people are dealing with. I want to commend Laura McClure for spelling it out about what girls are actually facing, in our legislation. That is not how the law is usually drafted. It usually skirts around these issues and makes nice out of what people are actually facing. I would recommend to any submitters to actually read the bill and realise what sort of intimate recordings are being shared on a daily basis, because young people at the moment are facing this and they’re a generation that are far more conservative than mine or the members on the other side. The young people are all right; they’re smoking less, they’re drinking less, but the level of online harm that they are facing is rapidly increasing. The kind of sexual exploitation is following their online experience out into the real world too. The level of sexual harm, the level of sexual violence, the level of unsafe, violent sexual practices that are happening for our rangatahi and becoming normalised is huge and we must confront that. This is one step but the work is not done. We should all keep going. CATHERINE WEDD (National—Tukituki) (16:29): Look, I think we stand here today with another significant moment in this House, where we are seeing cross-party support for us to move to protect not only children online but adults online, as well. I do want to commend Laura McClure for bringing this really important bill to the House. It was actually quite coincidental that we got our members’ bills drawn on exactly the same day. Of course, my member’s bill is to ban social media for under-16s and protect our kids online—two very important issues, because, of course, we see the deepfakes being driven by social media, so we want to see regulation in both areas: regulation in the deepfake and AI images being populated without women’s, children’s, people’s consent, but we also want to see some restrictions around social media use for our most vulnerable children, as well. So I think these are two very, very important bills, but they also show us that working across party is really, really important in achieving the best outcomes, and that outcome is to protect our kids, our women, and our girls online. I would encourage support for both of these issues, both in the social media space and, of course, in this deepfake space, as well, because we are seeing the rise of sexually explicit deepfakes, and it is a growing concern not only in New Zealand but worldwide. Deepfakes, as we know, are digitally altered images or videos that misappropriate an individual’s likeness and transform it into sexually explicit material, and that’s often populated without consent. This technology, as we know, is advancing rapidly. The member just spoke about her back when she was 16—like myself; we didn’t have this type of technology, this kind of fear, this kind of anxiety. For me, that was actually 30 years ago, so quite some time ago, and certainly, technology has changed a lot. The impact that these AI deepfake images have is huge. It violates personal autonomy and it can be extremely damaging, not only to mental health but it creates a fear, it erodes trust, and we need to be more respectful. Other countries have recognised the seriousness of deepfakes and have made significant progress in legislating against it, and it is time for us to act here, and it is great to see that agreement across the House. We’ve already had the Education and Workforce Committee inquiry, in which they also raised this really important issue of deepfakes. Looking at amending the Crimes Act to explicitly include images created, synthesised, or altered without consent is, of course, a very important step forward here today, because it will empower victims and hold offenders to account. Of course, on this side of the House, we are very much on the side of victims. Under this Government, we have seen 49,000 less victims of crime. That is really, really important, because we are driving legislation through that, of course, is going to be on the side of victims. Our Minister of Justice pointed out that we’ve made stalking now an offence, and, of course, that legislation is about to come through. I’d liken this to stalking and harassment online, because often when we see deepfakes, that can happen over a period of time, publishing those deepfakes online, and deepfakes can be used for, as we know, bullying—we see a lot of cyber-bullying—and it erodes that trust online, as well. Studies show that we’re seeing deepfakes around the world and in New Zealand on the rise, and it is time that we need to act. I often say that we have many safety rails in the physical world, but we have absolutely no safety rails in the online world, and of course, women and girls are most vulnerable to sextortion, to sexploitation, and to these deepfakes being populated online. It is time that we act. I commend the member and I commend this bill to the House. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Laura McClure, in reply. LAURA McCLURE (ACT) (16:34): Thank you, Madam Speaker. I just want to say thank you so much for all the members’ contributions in this debate. They’ve been absolutely wonderful and supportive, and we don’t often get this in the House, so we should really celebrate this when we do actually get it right. Because I have the right of reply, there’s a couple of things that I wanted to do. Firstly, I wanted to explain a little bit about why I brought this bill to the House, I want to thank some people, and then I want to actually address some of the concerns from some of the members and some of the points that they raised. As a member of Parliament, as a backbencher, you have an opportunity to have a member’s bill on the tin. Sometimes you have a grand idea, something that could be revolutionary; sometimes it can be just a really small tweak to a piece of legislation; and other times, it can be because a constituent or somebody has come to you with an area, a gap in our legislation, that needs to be fixed, and this is one of those areas where this bill came about. I was approached by a couple of young women who had found themselves victims to deepfaking, and it wasn’t just a case of being put into a bikini or a nude where it definitely doesn’t look like you. It was imagery that only the person who was deepfaked knew it wasn’t real, and the person who deepfaked you. Other than that, everybody else thought these images were real, and the harm was real. One of these victims was only 13 and she was completely humiliated at school and found herself in such despair she actually attempted suicide. That is real harm. That is a really serious thing. From that, this bill was drafted and created, and once that happened, the floodgates opened and I was absolutely inundated by messages of other people—mostly women, but there have been a couple of males—where this has happened to them, and it was really apparent that the harm was very, very real. Actually, both the members Arena Williams and Camilla Belich actually alluded to the fact that this has become a little bit normalised with our young people, and that’s a real worry when something becomes normalised, because the harms from the flip side of this are actually really serious. I do think that some of the young guys, when they are deepfaking somebody else in their class, they probably think it’s a bit of a laugh, but it’s actually really serious, and I want to say to them that it’s so serious that every single party in this Parliament says that it should be illegal. That’s the very first thing that we should be doing, is setting an example and a standard at the very minimum. Camilla Belich said that this is about sending a message, and I 100 percent agree with her. The member David Wilson sort of discussed a little bit about what “harmful” would mean in this context. I just want to assure the member that the Harmful Digital Communications Act, and particularly the revenge porn aspect, has actually been there for a long time, so this is well and truly tested, in terms of what that level is at this point in case law, so I think that they’ve got a pretty good handle on that—although it is going to be a select committee process, and if there are any concerns from individuals in that space, whether they’ve had their real nude shared, maybe they’ve taken a prosecution or attempted to, we would like to hear from you, as well, because it is important that we do get those definitions right so that we see the intent of this bill actually being adhered to. Helen White—she gave a wonderful speech. She talked a lot about other kinds of sexual, violent harms that are happening out there. Quite a few members actually addressed the issue that the online world is quite scary for our young people, and it is actually a really tricky area around what we do in that space. I do think what I’ve heard today is that we can all work together to come to some kind of solution, and I think that’s something that we should actually drive to do. Catherine Wedd—I think you might have suggested the cross-party solutions. It wasn’t a coincidence that our bills were actually pulled on the same day. It was a coincidence, sorry. We didn’t rig it. A lot of people thought that we did. But I think what this shows is that we are really concerned about our young people and how they are interacting online. The Hon Paul Goldsmith, I do want to actually shout out to him, because he did actually meet with me over this bill and did try and find time within his work programme to get this done, and I know he was looking at it and my bill got drawn. I want to thank all the journalists that actually took this on board and highlighted this issue. I’m running out of time so I can’t go through all of you, but, ultimately, I want to thank those young women that had the courage to reach out to a member of Parliament. This bill is for you, and it’s for my children, our children, and anybody else that might be affected by this kind of harm in the future. Motion agreed to. Bill read a first time.